The meeting between the President and the opposition produced no results. Both sides agreed however that two realities were presented – the Government’s one and the reality the non-Parliamentary opposition and many electors recognize. 

GT asked leader of the National Forum Kakha Shartava to talk about the meeting and the President’s reaction when they asked him to resign.   

Q: Did this meeting justify your hopes?

A: I expected no more than what happened. I was afraid that something worse could happen. I feared he would not say Yes to anything. I was surprised that he agreed with me when I said that both sides were talking about different realities, that he is living and functioning in one reality and another one, which we represent, also exists. I told him that the people are suffering from injustice, unemployment and fear.

Q: Did Saakashvili agree with you?

A: To my surprise, he acknowledged that we are talking about different realities and the rest was what we expected.

Q: What reaction did he give to your demands?

A: Of course they did not discuss any issue connected with changing the Government or elections. So we raised the question which society sent us to ask, how did he think we could find a way out of this situation? It seems that they do not think about finding a way out because they do not recognize that there is either a political or economic crisis, they think that everything is developing well.

However they did recognize the existence of two different realities and also that democracy does not exist here. Democracy only exists in form, not substance, and the country is demanding that some specific steps toward reform be made. We have heard that they feel it is necessary to create a council for making amendments to the Constitution and to make changes in the electoral code. The depoliticising of the police could also be on the agenda. However from their own words we found out that in reality their position is not the one they were presenting before the meeting.   

Q: Did they offer you any concrete positions in any new commission?

A: No, they did not offer us anything, because they did not dare and did not need to.

Q: After meeting you and other leaders of the opposition made rather radical statements. You said that the opposition rallies will take a more intense form. What do you plan?

A:  I think it would not have been serious to take radical steps the day after the meeting. We must wage our political battle with a deliberate strategy, which will address concrete problems.   This must be the response, not fomenting bitter protest rallies for the sake of it. This is not the right way to show the Government the extent of the crisis, it would be merely a provocation. If you want to show the Government that the country is in crisis and many people recognize it, you must spread the protest rallies throughout Georgia. This will prove to Georgia and the world that the political crisis is real.

Q: Is there enough desire for protest to inspire the whole of Georgia to join in?

A: This must appear. The opposition will have to work on this and prove that such a desire exists. If we do not do this Saakashvili and his people will be proved right in their estimation that only a few thousand “stupid” people are protesting because are discontented about something which has affected them, and there is not a real political crisis in this country.   

Q: The Government points out that some of the non-Parliamentary opposition support dialogue, for example Alasania, and that this might split the opposition.....

A: I think that trying to divide us in this way is wrong. The opposition cannot only be in the streets but neither can it only be in negotiations. Everything which happens in society, in the streets, must be constitutional and the opposition must ensure this. But if we are not going to have a revolution there must also be political processes going on. We will hold discussions with representatives of different branches of the Government on concrete issues. But the main thing is that everything must have a basis and this must be the recognition by the Government of the crisis existing in the country. The opposition is not creating a crisis artificially, it is unveiling the extent of the crisis. When the Government recognizes the crisis changes will be inevitable. Holding a radical position does not mean standing in the streets alone and refusing to take part in political processes. Alasania and others who think that relationships and political processes must continue in some format are right. I will reiterate however that the basis of these processes must be that a national and governmental crisis is raging in the state and both sides must acknowledge it. Otherwise negotiations will have any point.

Q: The opposition decided who would go to the meeting while in Nino Burjanadze’s office. Why did she refuse to meet Saakashvili? Do you think she refused because she wanted to send a message to society by doing this?

A: Frankly speaking, due to my weak health I did not attend this meeting. I know only that there was a consensus among the opposition about this.

Q: Information has leaked that Saakashvili told you openly that he would not let you block the main roads and will order the breakup of the rallies if this happens. Was this said?.

A: We did not talk directly about blocking the trunk roads, but they mentioned that they are not the previous Government and they will not let us. We said that when people want the President’s resignation this demand starts from the lower levels and gradually percolates through to higher ones. Nowadays everyone thinks that everything which is happening is Saakashvili’s and his Government’s fault and he must therefore resign.

Q: The Government is preparing to hold the military parade on Rustaveli Avenue as usual. How will you respond?

A: After everything which has happened I do not know whether Saakashvili and his Government have the stomach to hold a military parade. If his people are not afraid of presenting themselves as shameful they will. But I do not think they will be able to hold it.